#*IR shippers exist*

[tae-shimura-is-my-wife]

People in Bleach fandom talk about how IR are delusional, crazy, aren't real Bleach fans, disrespect Kubo's decision of making I//H and are terrible for not accepting canon, without counting all the 358752175 excuses of why they can't be together.

All that rethoric make me think if IR was canon, would they react in the same way to defend this ship? Would they hunt every person which didn't ship the canon couple to tell how stupid they are? Would they respect Kubo's decision? Would they call everyone who didn't see it delusional? Considering how this fandom react to IR as a fanon ship, we already have the answer...

[the-best-url-on-this-site]

Y'ever see something in a book and then go Well Why'd The Author Have To Do That

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

https://www.tumblr.com/enbyzutara/745302321089675264/im-sorry-to-break-it-to-you-ka-shippers-but?source=share whats ur opinion on this

***

“Non-consensual”

Aang misjudged the moment and kissed someone he had already kissed twice consensually twice before in a moment where that person really didn’t feel like kissing him. That’s not good, but it’s not the same as him forcing himself on her. You’d think the people that like that a ship that literally only exists because the bad guy tied a girl to a tree and fans then made rape-turned-romance fics about it wouldn’t be so quick to judge the protagonist for a poorly timed kiss between two characters that were flirting constantly (and again, have already had two consensual kisses before). 

“It’s not shown as explicitly wrong to the very young audience”

Katara snaps at him after ir. He is kicking himself for it. The whole tone of the scene is “Aang needs to calm to down and not rush into it, he needs to respect Katara’s decision to take some time to think about whether or not she wants to be his girlfriend officially.” The show couldn’t possibly be more clear. Are we supposed to assume neither Zuko nor Iroh feel guilty over stealing that ostrige-horse from Song, despite the show repeatedly proving they’ve changed as people, just because there’s no scene of them explicitly saying the words “That thing we did was bad”?

“The Kataang endgame is just ‘Hero Gets The Girl’“

They were endgame because there were three seasons of BOTH characters having feelings for each other. It was set up from the first episode. It’s not just because “Well, Aang is the protagonist.” It just made sense. Hell, if anything the show was starting to fall victim to the stupid trope of “Main couple cannot get together for real until the last episode, even the story already reached that point naturally before said episode” - it’s the whole reason why they had to force this conflict of the kiss. They were running out of ideas on how to keep them apart.

“The finale, aka the episode in which they get together, coming right after the Ember Island fiasco is a bad narrative choice”

That I agree with. See? It’s easy to criticize the show/writting/characters without blowing things out of proportion.

[atla-confessions]

ambassador katara became a famous trope in early 2014, with "Once Around The Sun" on Ao3. that fic also set the tone for zutara fics that came after it, the anti aang and ant mai sentiment, assassination attempts (on katara's life, for the most part) and zuko's council refusing to accept katara as zuko's lover. i've been in the fandom since 2010, not in the last four years, I worded my rant not in the best way, sorry for that. the four years I talked about are referring to zukka's rise in popularity. If you check Ao3, the first zukka fic there is from 2008. lt's a ship that did exist but not since the beginning and not with the popularity of nowadays. After that 2008 fic, the next one is from the same year and then another one is published in 2009. And then other three during 2010. And then nine during 2011. And the number goes up in next years but really rises in 2020 (atla was added on netflix that year and we were in quarantine, that gave people a lot of time to watch and create content). Also, the majority of the 2008-2013 are accessible only to registered users, probably in light to the fact the homophobia in the fandom was ery strong. fire lady katara was more prevalent, yes, but any fic (and fanart) you check from 2014 and foward will be more kely to have ambassador katara rather than ire lady katara and when they do have her as fire lady, is really towards the end of the fic or in sequences of ambassador katara. i honestly think the first ambassador fanfic was a zutara fanfic, before OATS, on fanfiction.net on 2007. the earliest ambassador sokka fic as you stated is from 2008, but I don't know which site you're using as a metric poor little zuko is a common trope in non-zukka fics (since the majority of atla fics are zuko-centric), even zutara ones, but the majority of the ones i see with katara being "meaner" than she was in the series and sokka "needing to intervene, are zukka. a good portion of "the gaang learns how zuko got his scar" also fall under that label i don't care how "homophobic katara" got started and this isn't me being rude, just honest. It's out of hand and it's an annoying fucking trope (don't now if I can even call it that) and while it isn't common as "mean katara and savior sokka'" it's just as misogynist. Some authors really tried to keep as a little saint and then dunk prejudice on katara I recognize there are zutara shippers who are misogynist to mai but I never denied that. I was talking about zukka and their treatment of katara, I don't see why I would mention mai when she isn't even included in most of zukka fics. If you want to talk about mai hate, be my guest, you're probably more well versed than me since I don't engage with mai related content, being it anti or pro someone before you mentioned suki tho and that's something i wish i had included in my original ask. the show really disregards suki as does the fandom, it's annoying as hell to read a fic and they diminish sokka's feelings or her or make her jealous bc he's dating zuko

Okay, so I did further research into this. And I was right in the sense that Ambassador Sokka was not just a Zukka thing. The earliest Ambassador Sokka fic I have found is a 2006 fic on fanfiction.net. It is a Sokkla fic. There seem to be a few of them, it might actually be originally a Sokkla trope. I also found an Ambassador Toph/Zuko also from 2008. I think it might have just been popular across most ships at the time. A popular trope in general as opposed to one assigned to a specific ship, however it seems to have started with Sokkla unless you can find an earlier one. (The fic is on fanfiction.net).

I was in the fandom in 2014 but I still don't recall a lot of Ambassador Katara fics. Maybe this is because I was not a hardcore Zutara shipper. I remember I saw a lot of Fire Lady Katara stuff but maybe that was mostly from before. I genuinely saw the ambassador trope with Zukka first. Also, the first 'Zukka' fic I found was from 2005 on fanfiction.net but it also used to be referred to as SoZu at one point by some people. (Ao3 was created in 2008 btw, you can just backdate fics to when they were originally created/posted since it is an archive)

Honestly, I do not know how you are encountering so much homophobic Katara, I have not seen it that much and I like Zukka a lot. I have definitely seen these 'mean Katara' whump fics a lot with various characters needing to intervene. Even Hakoda in some. But most I have encountered have been gen fics.

I just brought up the general misogyny in the fandom because I believe it is a huge problem that goes largely unaddressed (or at least not properly addressed). People just seem to like to point the finger at various parts of the fandom but it's everywhere and it's very upsetting. You pointed out the Homophobia in the Zutara fandom, so I brought up that they also have a misogyny problem as well. Because the whole fandom has one. (Also, I love Mai.)

I have never encountered a Zukka fic villainizing Suki but maybe I just got better at identifying when a fic is going to be like that after my experiences with the Zutara fandom in the earlier days when there was a lot of bitterness over the ship not being made canon. (Fanfiction to vent is valid, I just wish it was easier to filter out. No hate to Zutara shippers, being upset about your ship and making content to vent is completely normal)

It's normal to diminish the feelings of the canon ship when doing your own ship. They usually do that, otherwise the characters would be with their canon love interest. I can't think of a non-canon ship where at least one of the people in the ship has a canon relationship where they haven't done that. Zutara does that. Zukka does that. Azutara does that. Ect. It's kinda par for the course

X

[anishake]

Thoughts on IR fandom and its reputation

I am a veteran IR shipper who has loved and rooted for the pairing for years and the ending definitely isn't something I love. I did share my fair amount of disappointment here, tho never made it outright hate speech for obvious reasons - it's okay and I think every IR shipper has the right to be mad about the ending. No matter how much Kubo says he intended IH to be endgame from the start, the way he wrote IR, ship baited more than half of the fandom. We all know how big of a following our pairing had back in the days and many of us still prefer to ship it, because there is no rules about what one should ship. Anyways, on to the more pressing matters - shortly after the ending Kubo received a big amount of hate messages mostly from Japanese fans, many of them even going as far as wishing him death. I absolutely do not condone this fact as I'm sure all sane IR shippers do. However that event slighted our fandom to the point that most IH and anti-ir fans always use it against us, calling the fandom toxic and insensible. It's of course their problem that they can't tell apart a toxic fan apart regular shipper who just wants to continue liking IR in peace. It saddens me that today even defending ourselves has become problematic, because the rest of the fandom always manages to paint us as villains.

For me the obvious solution is total ignore of everyone that comes for IR shippers and IR because standing up just adds fuel to fire and a great concept that is IchiRuki pair deserves to be shipped in a toxic-free environment. Was that VA of Rukia out of line? Absolutely. Is it okay to reply and say vile things to her - no. Let's not give the antis more reasons to villainize us.

What's so amazing is that even after years IR fandom is still big, still makes great content and the haters are absolutely mad by it. Let our actions speak for ourselves, there's no need to answer hate with hate, even our existence makes them mad, so let us let them stay pressed.

Long live IchiRuki, the black sun and the white moon.

[mrsspidermanmaryjanewatsonparker]

I googled a little about the current Zeb Wells run on Spider-Man.

Sad to see Nick Spencer's run was but a brief blip before we went back to business with a vengeance.

In these are dark days my fellow Pete/MJ shippers just remember this...the original versions of Peter and MJ ceased to exist in 2007 with One More Day.

What we have now are not them.

...But you know still voice your ire of course. Catharsis can be good for the soul.

[xoxomyseriesxoxo]

There’s something that has been irking me in the past few months... /That/ part of the fandom (that mostly was NOT here when the manga was still published weekly and when it got cancelled by SJ) changed the narrative about our reaction to the ending.

Now it’s all ‘omg mean IR shippers who are bitter over their ship not being canon!! They are terrible people!!!’ and calling us us bullies when no, you weren’t there back then where there were daily d*ath th*ats and rude asks sent to us... Not to mention we were mainly angry at the way the ending was so rushed and poorly written. We didn’t even know whether I//sshin, R//yuken, G//rimmjow (AGAIN), U//rahara and Y//oruichi were still alive or not because it was never said IN THE MANGA (because we only got an answer in light novels years later but majority of people only read the manga, not the novels that are semi-canon at best). We were angry over U//rahara’s “forgive me, K//urosaki, K//uchiki, for leaving everything to you” was somehow forgotten and the final fight with I//chigo, R//ukia and U//ryuu (who had THE silver arrow) VS Y//hwach never happened. We were angry because C//had ended up fighting for profits (profesionnal boxing) and U//ryuu ended up alone (again), overworked and working as a doctor just like his father and that go against their character arcs. We were angry because there was a whole arc and hints in the final arc clearly showing how I//chigo didn’t fit in the human world anymore and yet stayed there in the end. We were angry because the Sokyoku, the symbol of S//oul S//ociety’s old ways and injustice that I//chigo destroyed, was REBUILT. We were angry because M//ayuri was still a Captain and not in jail for his crimes. We were angry because we loved and cared for the story and the ending went against the main and side characters’ arcs and against the s//hinigami’s new ideals represented by I//chigo and R//ukia. And yes, we were angry for the pairings too because it was so badly written but most of us were fine with an open ending or IR and ISH ending but the new ‘IR would be nothing without anime filler moments’ argument is so ridiculous because even if you only look at the manga, IR was great, developed and made sense. Weirdly enough, the ones repeatedly shouting that filler “argument” aren’t saying a word about R//ukia’s scenes getting changed/deleted in the anime rn despite being the deuteragonist as if her erasure hadn’t been bad enough in the manga vers. of the final arc (same for B//yakuya scenes to a lesser extent)... But yes, our anger is mainly aimed at how poorly written the ending was, not only shipping-wise but in general. And now it’s irritating to see new fans act as if criticism that were there for a decade is not allowed towards the story or the mangaka.

While I’m watching the anime so far and I’m happy with the added scenes (especially the ones with U//ryuu concerning his heritage and the conflict he feels over the whole situation), I must say I don’t like how they deleted R//ukia scenes and B//yakuya scenes on purpose. I prefer the old characters designs as well and though and color palettes are now closer to the manga’s, the body proportions often look wrong (B//yakuya’s face, U//ryuu’s jaw to mention only a few exemples) and the lighting is horrible. I’m watching because I want to see EBTR, R//ukia’s bankai, U//nohana’s true self etc. but I do understand why fans who were in the fandom back then aren’t watching the anime or simply left the fandom given how we’re being treated and how some people are changing the narrative.

(And before my words get twisted... There’s nothing wrong with being a new fan, just don’t make up a new version as to why we dislike the ending/how we react(ed) to it. The criticism towards the writing is also more than fair and has existed even before the last arc even started.)

[beevean]

I find it such, such a shame that basically every single OC (especially on the heroes' side) that IDW introduced has gotten flanderised and/or milked for all their worth angst-wise and such, despite so many having interesting backstories (or even just the slightest hint of prior existence in the world) that you can do something with. Belle has been unsubtly swooped right into the background now that her story is over(?), Whisper is not allowed to move on from the loss of her team and keeps being subjected to more and more horrifying experiences related to it, Tangle has swiftly become the silly goose of the bunch as opposed to someone with plenty of intelligence and emotional maturity in the Tangle & Whisper miniseries, Lanolin randomly turned into what was supposed to be the Competent Girlboss which falls entirely flat anyway because the writing's got more holes in it than Swiss cheese...

It truly makes me wonder if, in a new comic or manga if/when IDW goes down, we should want new canon foreigner characters to be introduced in there. Both Archie and IDW have proven that they will eventually turn into a drama story featuring mostly just the OCs and disproportionately dividing attention to those, with the game cast easily coming across as an afterthought or being written OOC to facilitate that drama (such as everything with Silver getting kicked out of the Diamond Cutters he never joined in the first place, or Cream's inability to fight off Rough and Tumble ruining her and Vanilla's cooking and getting turned into a bawling mess in the process. And that was just from among the most recent two issues). I feel like it has to do with the fact both comics had/have the same writers, but I also understand that it's easier to write a character from scratch than needing to stick to guidelines from higher-up... Thus, maybe if a character from scratch cannot be written in the first place, it would make an improvement? Some strange moments aside (e.g. Sonic insulting Knuckles to Blaze, Sonic being a shipper on deck for Silvaze), I don't have much to complain about the stories that have only game characters in them. And that is it: I'm just here to see fun adventures from Sonic and his friends, not the woes and troubles of new characters who have either completely failed to catch or lost my interest over time.

(Sorry for the long ask, I wanted to add enough examples. Feel free to ignore if you would rather not talk about IDW again ^^)

Some strange moments aside (e.g. Sonic insulting Knuckles to Blaze, Sonic being a shipper on deck for Silvaze), I don't have much to complain about the stories that have only game characters in them.

I'm not saying this in a mean way towards you, but I do. I do plenty. IDW Sonic is a genuinely awful character that only recently has stopped to earn my ire. And you know why? Because the story no longer features him in the spotlight, instead focusing on the OCs.

Flynn has admitted that they prefer to write OCs because they "have less oversight", basically they don't have to deal with the guidelines that come with the canon characters. With this amount of unprofessionalism, I gladly accept the OCs attracting the worst of their writing degeneration, instead of ruining further characters I care about.

Now, yes, it is a shame that perfectly good new characters have been squandered (poor Tangle didn't deserve to become an annoying "ADHD-coded" uwu shipbait), but like. At this point it's the less of the two evils. The problem is not OCs or canon characters: the problem is writers who strut around in their workplace, thinking they're misunderstood geniuses and that it's their mission to fix the bad writing from SEGA.

[lemonhemlock]

I think part of the reason lucemond in particular gets a lot of push back (besides the obvious ick that comes from so many of the lucemonders using the tween actor as a face claim for their erotica only to gaslight anyone who calls them out on this) is that lucemond is a textbook case of the phenomenon of fanon breeding fanon.

I can believe people genuinely like reading and creating lucemond content but what they’re engaging with is literally just fanon.

I’m pretty much convinced that lucemond started out as a self insert ship for girlies who needed an excuse for Aemond to switch to team black but didn’t want to be seen doing the ‘AemondxTeam Black OC’ and accused of making Mary Sues

However lucemond metastasized in hotd fandom circles to include a bunch of headcanons and made up nonsense which has absolutely no grounding in canon. It might as well be an AemondxOC but shippers on the Twitters will argue till their blue that it’s not.

And that is probably what grinds on people — Lucerys is a nothing character in the book, his only role is to serve as a plot device. He is hardly much better in the show with only like 5 minutes of screentime and a page of dialogue. Additionally to a lot of us critics nothing about what we’re shown of lucerys is conducive to shipping with Aemond. I believe you wrote about this before in your anti-lucerys tag, but there is quite literally no reason for Aemond to like him. The only place this ship exists is in their delusions but they’ll nonetheless go on and on about fated fued and how obsessed Aemond is with Lucerys.

On AO3 and Twitter, Lucerys is some perfect Helen of Troy or celebrity it-girl figure. The realm goes to war because of him, and not the literal myriad of other political issues that have broiling for decades.

It’s the way a lot of lucemonders belittle and insult Aemond (particularly show!Aemond who unlike Lucerys actually has a character arc) to hype up Lucerys as this stunningly beautiful universally adored guy (who inexplicably has a vagina 75% of the time). Lucerys is a Mary Sue.

Now if lucemond had stayed in some niche corner of the internet there probably wouldn’t such vitriol but it’s the fact that is got big and overwhelmed the more ‘canon’ ship of Rhaenicent and became the dominant mlm ship for the fandom when by all rights that should have Aegmond or some variation of Viserys/Otto/Daemon for the old man enjoyers. Lucemond has become so big it’s practically unavoidable and the fact that it simply doesn’t make sense raises a number of folks ire.

Antis dislike lucemond and lucemonders because they’re pulling shit out of their ass. They dislike it because it’s more popular than it has any right to be. And they dislike it because it’s more than a little creepy to ship a grown man with an underage boy and insist on decribing him as twink or pretty boy. That’s not a twink it’s a child you creeps.

Now before people come out arguing about breakbones!luke and bottom/omega!aemond lucemond content realise that is a fraction of a percent of what is generally produced, and authors who create that in no way pretend they’re doing anything other than slapping metaphorical barbies together, additionally Aemond isn’t actively maligned in these stories, and older breakbones!luke avoids the obvious issue of this ship being incredibly creepy.

Now I am an advocate for doing as you wish so long as it’s not illegal. Ship and let ship. Don’t like don’t read. But I do sympathize a lot with the anti lucemond crowd and their reasons for disliking the ship but my advice is simply not to engage with them if you can avoid doing so. Firstly it’s just not a good look to get all heated over an intern ship and secondly they’ll probably go away eventually now that there won’t be any fresh content in subsequent seasons of the show. Let them have their delusions while they still can, they’re probably not hurting anyone.

So basically that’s what I think is going on with regard to lucemond and anti-lucemond in case anyone was interested in what exactly this discourse was about.

Cheers

honestly, anon, fair take. as you said, i mainly dislike lucemond bc it doesn't make sense to me why they would have the hots for each other considering their personalities, but especially their past behaviour towards each other. like i just don't buy aemond being in love with the person who maimed him.* the vibes are just not vibing. it wasn't a thing in the past with readers of Fire and Blood and the show doesn't help either bc i just can't ship someone wearing ewan's face with someone wearing elliot's face - the visual discrepancy is way too accentuated

but if lucemonds want to image breakbones luke or whatever, go ahead, it's not taking anything from my pie. i just don't engage with that content. i may rant on my own account from time to time, but that's that. good point re: a lot of pushback lucemond is experiencing is bc fans are baffled this is THEE no1 hotd gay ship (justice for old man yaoi!!!) , but, as you've pointed out, it's just not worth going to war with them over it

the genderbending thing is something that regularly crops up with mlm pairings so it's something to be expected

*i can imagine him being obsessed with the person who maimed him, but lucemonds are so squeamish about producing horror content. the stuff i've seen in that regard mostly involved some version of aemond keeping luke as a literal sex slave (ofc), which was executed too cartoonishly for my tastes

anyway. not my circus, not my monkeys. ✌

[raeflora]

Hi again! I would really love your opinion on something, (since you said that if I ever want you to write meta on something specific I can ask)

Do you think that most D**ir shippers are Dan fans rather than Blair l fans?

I am going forward with the rewatch and I have been reading stuff here andvon other platforms and I have noticed that most D**ir focus on what Dan feels or what Dan does for Blair, ignoring Blair's emotional and mental state at the time

Furthermore they seem to want to rid Blair from all the things that make her Blair (like her ruthlessness and scheming)

Idk... For me Blair wouldn't be Blair without the good and the bad. So it makes me wonder if these people just.... Don't like Blair very much.....

hi!! this is such a good question tysm and this is gonna be long so I hope u don't mind 🫶🏻 I think generally yes d*ir fans do seem to be more fans of dan than they are of blair, and I think there are a few reasons (that I've seen) for this. some of it comes from penn badgley fans as a lot of ppl who discovered him from you on netflix have then watched gg and like dan purely bc it's him. some of it also comes from this rehash of the idea that chuck's "bad" bc of the pilot and ignoring his development, and dan's "good" bc... he's not chuck lol.

ur right in that a lot of them don't want blair to be, well, herself. as I said in my other meta post there's a lot of focus on how blair's "better" when she's with dan. she doesn't scheme, she doesn't do anything, really, except from talk about movies and artists. they think that this watered down version of blair is her true self, even though if u watch the previous 4 and a half seasons it's obvious that's just not true. they want blair to be this girl who's content to spend her days visiting museums and waiting around for dan who she's clearly not. there's nothing wrong with her that dan needs to fix, and chuck didn't corrupt her. she can be interested in art and movies and still scheme and be mean. there's no mutual exclusivity to any of her personality traits, they can all co-exist and are what make her blair. like chuck said in s2 it's stupid to want her to be anything other than what she is.

also, ur so right again in that they ignore blair's mental state. she's obviously not in a good place in s5 and probably shouldn't jump into any relationship after her divorce. but dan pushes her into it. throughout the show she belittles him, insults him, makes fun of serena dating him, and generally just doesn't like him. while they're dating she still doesn't seem that keen on him. there's talk of how she's happier and smiling all the time with dan, but she's not. she effectively throws a tantrum being seen out with him and she can't celebrate his career, she instead undermines and upstages him. her behaviour doesn't seem like someone who's found her perfect match. it seems like someone who's in a confusing transitional period of her life and clings to the nearest man, like she did with carter in s2. if dan was this great perfect man he'd say he couldn't date her right away, let her sort herself out. but no, he forces her to be more than just friends bc, where she's so isolated from everyone else, if she loses him then she loses her only support system (the fact that she becomes so reliant on dan humphrey in the wake of her miscarriage is something for another post) so she kind of has to get into a relationship with him, even though she's not ready mentally.

in terms of liking blair, I think that most d*ir fans like their own version of blair, instead of the canon version. this might be connected to them often preferring dan, and then they just project traits onto blair that aren't hers. I don't know why they don't do this to serena btw, bc her relationship with dan is significantly more important, and she was far more willing to do "ordinary" things with him than blair. ultimately I think they want d*ir, and blair individually, to be something they're not and were never going to be. d*ir isn't sethmer or paceyjoey or whoever else they compare them to. blair isn't someone they can shape into fitting their ideas like dan does, she's her own distinct character and if they don't like her then they should admit it instead of mischaracterising her

[anti-katsuki-lounge]

Something that’s been on the back of my mind that I’ve finally managed to put into words:

I feel really bad for people who like Katsuki and shippers of BkDk/KrBk/Kacchako, etc. They’re just doing their own thing and BakuStans come out and completely shit on their reputation. It’s why I do my best to let people know that I consider fans and stans their own thing. Katsuki’s fans like something I don’t and that’s completely fine. I am in no position to tell them they can’t like Katsuki and his ships. As long as they’re happy, that’s all that matters. They’re not shoving Katsuki down my throat or calling me insults cause I dislike their fave. They’re literally just existing and enjoying a piece of media. Stans on the other hand can’t do that. It’s not enough to enjoy Katsuki. They have to make Katsuki their entire personality. I’m not talking about kinning btw. I have nothing against those who kin Katsuki either even if I may question why him specifically. I’m talking about Stans treating Katsuki as if he was their child or even themselves. They can’t accept that people dislike him and will actively harass anyone who disagrees with them. This unfortunately not only causes further displeasure to those who dislike Katsuki, but actively ruins the reputation of those associated with Katsuki.

So yeah, I do feel really bad for those who do like Katsuki but face negativity from people who’ve been targeted by stans. Fans, keep doing your thing and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. You’re not hurting anyone, so why should they care about what you’re doing? People who read this blog, please remember that there are people who like Katsuki and simply wanna enjoy what they enjoy in peace. You may disagree with them, but don’t bother them. They’re not hurting you in any way. At the end of the day, fans just wanna live their life in peace. It’s the stans that deserve your ire, not the fans.

[tae-shimura-is-my-wife]

At first this was going to be about the hipocrisy of fandom regarding ichiruki and the sacracity of m/f friendship rep, but then I perceveid it would be stupid since most of them could ship two doors if it was a man and woman, they just are doing mental olympics to disprove it being read as romantic.

But there's a part of this that's really annoying and it's the warriors of m/f friendship being mad at every IR shipper, but never at the people who erases Rukia infuence and importance from Ichigo's life.

Look a lot of giant Bleach accounts try to minimize Ichigo and Rukia relationship, they're the reason as to why Bleach even exist their relationship is the pillar of the entire story, they're soulmates and destined to be together (yes even in a platonic sense), but most of them don't even recognize that, most would say they're besties or share one braincell and that's it... not even having the nerve of saying Ichigo and Rukia are most important person in each other life.

It's really funny how IRs are the horrible ones for shipping two friends, but then get real quiet to the ones who literally ignore Rukia importance/presence, say Renji is actually Ichigo bestie, barely even post official art with these two, never complained about how Rukia and Ichigo bond was dimished in the last arc and in the post ending novel, like? Are you really a fan of their friendship or you are just mad bc people ship them instead of something else? Be serious for a moment! 90% of times folks say they're friends are because they find romantic IR an absurd idea, so many of "their friendship is so precious, such a shame a bunch of freaks ship them 🥺" Is it necessary? Everytime someone say Ichigo and Rukia are friends a whole ass crowd reunites to hate on the ship, I'm sorry but I thought you guys were there to celebrate their friendship? I will never take these people seriously.

[optimism-blooms]

Here’s my personal opinion about how I’m feeling about Rudy interview’s…………….. and my love for Madison because she is my girl ♥️

Madison baby🥰

I really hope that Madison is so successful after outer banks ends, she has been such a joy and professional actress throughout the entire process! Like she is so honest and open about her character and the relationship on screen with jiara! She is always smiling and really gives her 100% honest answers about the ship! It just sucks because she’s the only one carrying the ship. She’s the only one talking about it in the reviews. She is always giving her honest opinions about them, and she always talks so positive about Rudy and interviews too.  But after the whole debacle with fans shipping them in real life, and not liking her girlfriend, which she was very open about as well as she said in her live on Instagram, people need to stop shipping them together, because she is very happily in love with her girlfriend, and she still being professional because she knows how to promote certain ship that she knows has a big impact on the fans and the people who watch the show, she gets it and I’m so sorry that she hast to do it all by herself and I swear to god if they end up winning at the MTV award’s, and she walks up on the stage by herself I think it’s literally going to be like the final straw on Rudy’s part because clearly if she has to do that by herself, he 100% is not serious about his career and is initially slapping every single fan in the face and it would just be disappointing.

Rudy🙃

For Rudy, it all comes down to him just being determined to stay out of the line of fire by not saying anything, but is not at all helping the situation either and Im not even a hard core shipper of jiara but a little promotion will not cause issues! I feel like he’s the one who can’t separate real and not real, not the fans🙃

Yes i know he is an amazing actor as he has proven the last 3 seasons and I hope he stays like that, but acting like your co star doesn’t exist and completely going out of the way to ignore certain questions about them and the ship you are part of, is down right rude and ignorant and disrespectful to the people who like the show and that particular ship. Really hope he’s starts stepping up his game as they gear up to start filming for season four, because if he doesn’t if he continues doing this, I fear that he may not be successful after the show because honestly who’s gonna want to hire an actor who doesn’t seem to care about his career or the certain character he’s portraying you’re supposed to lift up the costar you work with not act like they don’t exist, which is honestly disrespectful to her too.

[ not saying that he does not care about his career or character, just what it looks like from my prospective]

The IRL person🤔

And always throwing your relationship with your girlfriend in our face like we get it dude we know you guys have been together, doesn’t mean we have to like her, doesn’t mean we like the situation, but I believe that she is also a big part in why he doesn’t give his honest answers and why he’s so cut off during interviews. And I honestly believe his relationship with her is why he’s so different now, because before they were dating and when he was doing press for season one with the cast. He was so carefree, happy and free spirited but ever since then after season two he just constantly looks like he’s depressed, reserved, uncomfortable and I think that’s a large part to the relationship he is in IRL. I don’t know I’ve never met them in real life. I don’t know what she’s like, but from what I’ve seen online and what fans have said who went to pouglandia about how she is constantly giving dirty looks to fans and is constantly attached to his hip 24/7 is not a sign of a healthy relationship. From personal experience, I’m married and even we don’t spend 24/7 together, we enjoy different things by ourselves. Once again, I’m not saying he is not happy IRL with her, but having her working on the set has probably also made the working relationship for him and Madison 100% times more difficult for them both. Who the hell wants to work with someone who you have to be romantic with on camera in from of your IRL person. Honestly something needs to change because that whole situation seems so strange.

Unnecessary Drama

Even if he don’t ship them together, during his interviews he should still be positive about the working relationship and the ship that he is playing a part of it’s not that deep.

Going out of the way to avoid the question, makes all the rumors about you having something deeper than friendship in the past, starts looking like something did happen between them and now this constant avoidance of the questions, is constantly backfiring and makes fans 100% feel like there is a reason why you don’t want to talk about her… just saying.

I don’t hate him, because you never know what is going on in someone’s life, I just hope things shift for the better because he did an amazing job as JJ this season as did Madison and I will forever be grateful for that💜

[balfeheughanmm]

Eu tentei assistir OL três vezes. As duas primeiras vezes falharam, a terceira deu certo. Não li os livros, talvez tenho planos parar ler, minha vida é muitíssimo corrida e é difícil tirar esse tempo. Enfim, na terceira vez deu mais que certo. Eu me vi totalmente arrebatada pelo amor de Jamie e Claire. Eu assisti todas as temporadas novamente. Prestando atenção aos detalhes. Sentindo cada sentimento. Me deixei levar. E em determinado momento, eu me perguntei: “Sam Heughan e Caitriona Balfe são um casal?”, “como é possível os dois queimarem juntos e não serem um casal?”, e milhares de questões martelavam na minha cabeça, dia após dia, como curiosa, emocionada e apaixonada que sou por qualquer coisa que prende minha atenção. Então, eu decidi ir pro Google. Nada. Notícias vagas, fotos sem graça e sem vida da querida com o 🧛🏻‍♀️. Casada. Com filho. Mesmo com toda aquela química, aquele fogo, aquele amor que eu nunca senti tão forte em qualquer outro casal antes, Cait é casada com um homem completamente estranho, distante, com um filho que sequer nunca foi mostrado, pelo menos com intenção. Fiquei triste, confesso que até chorei. E não foi uma vez, foram várias. Sou Mariana, 25 anos, casada, e tenho um filho chamado José. Muito prazer, aliás. Busquei pelo Sam. Quarentão, solteiro, safadão e sexy sem ser vulgar, tendo encontros esporadicamente com alguma loira com a metade da idade do mesmo, e as vezes até uma morena, pra variar… chorei de novo. Mas eu não parei por aí. Eu entrei num grupo pago de shippers, eu absorvi, li, entendi, julguei como quis, cada coisinha que eu descobri sobre Sam e Caitriona naquelas longas noites. E sim, tiveram noites em que eu nem dormi, por tantas informações novas pra mim. Eu cheguei no fandom esse ano, então, eram muitas coisas para absorver e eu queria engolir tudo que eu pudesse encontrar pra entender meus sentimentos sobre isso, e finalmente encontrar a paz com a minha decisão. Depois de ler tudo no grupo shipper, eu vim pro Tumblr. Mais algumas semanas praticamente acordada em minhas noites. Eu vi muito. Eu li muito. Eu ouvi muito. E não, ninguém pode tirar isso de mim. Mesmo que essa pessoa seja Caitriona e que ela me difame como shipper. Me tire de louca em entrevistas. Tente provar à todo custo que isso é loucura da minha cabeça e que ela é casada com um homem a qual não existe uma faísca e tem um filho com o mesmo. Caitriona, me desculpe, mas eu não acredito nisso. Depois de tudo que eu senti após ver cada olhar dos dois. Arrebatador. Painéis, entrevistas, set, casas compartilhadas. Mentiras compartilhadas não só entre os dois, mas entre muitos. Falhas tentativas em esconder o que estava mais claro que a luz do dia. Na cara dura. Doa a quem doer. Venha o que vier… eu não aceitei a “verdade” que me impuseram desde o primeiro episódio de OL que eu assisti. E graças a Deus por isso, porque eu não tinha paz até entender que pessoas estão sujeitas à outras pessoas. Outras regras, outras leis. Que em nome do amor, nós fazemos merdas. Grandes, pequenas, mas muitas merdas, de diferentes tipos e intensidades. Um dia, após continuar com muitas dúvidas sobre os dois e toda essa mentira suja, eu pensei algo espetacular. A prova estava bem na minha frente, todo o tempo, desde 2019, quando Caitriona se casou e eu não tive uma foto. Um Tweet. Uma declaração. Um nada. Todo aquele casamento foi um grande NADA. Não tive também uma demonstração de amor ou carinho. Foi absolutamente nada, perto da tempestade que são Sam e Caitriona, com apenas um olhar. Ali eu tive a minha prova. Pode parecer loucura pra alguns porque foi com esse “casamento” que eles deixaram shippar os dois. Pra mim, mais uma vez, foi mais claro que a luz do dia. A reação dela à tudo isso foi a pior e mais mentirosa possível, e aí, eu respirei profundamente e meu coração obteve um pouco mais de paz sobre o assunto. Até que fui descobrindo mais e mais sobre SC e eu vi que ela ficou calada.

CONTINUA (pq eu não sei usar o Tumblr ainda 🤣)

[atla-confessions]

I am pretty sure Ambassador Sokka is popular outside of Zukka (because of Korra and him being shown as a water tribe representative in flashbacks). Also, the earliest Ambassador Sokka Zukka fic I have found is 2008? The same year as the earliest Ambassador Katara Zutara fic I found. Fire Lady Katara was way more of a prevalent thing with (early) Zutara. First fic I found being a 2006 fic. And both Ambassadors becoming more prevalent in 2017-2019 likely due atla renaissance and the realization of the problematic nature of Fire Lady Katara and such. I used to read Zutara fic way back when and I don't remember Ambassador Katara being a big thing at all (I do remember Fire Lady Katara being pretty a pretty popular trope in art and fic). I genuinely think these both became popular at the same time. I don't think it is a Zutara trope. (As someone who has been 'in the fandom' a lot longer than 4 years). I actually encountered it with Zukka first.

ambassador katara became a famous trope in early 2014, with "Once Around The Sun" on Ao3. that fic also set the tone for zutara fics that came after it, the anti aang and ant mai sentiment, assassination attempts (on katara's life, for the most part) and zuko's council refusing to accept katara as zuko's lover. i've been in the fandom since 2010, not in the last four years, I worded my rant not in the best way, sorry for that. the four years I talked about are referring to zukka's rise in popularity. If you check Ao3, the first zukka fic there is from 2008. lt's a ship that did exist but not since the beginning and not with the popularity of nowadays. After that 2008 fic, the next one is from the same year and then another one is published in 2009. And then other three during 2010. And then nine during 2011. And the number goes up in next years but really rises in 2020 (atla was added on netflix that year and we were in quarantine, that gave people a lot of time to watch and create content). Also, the majority of the 2008-2013 are accessible only to registered users, probably in light to the fact the homophobia in the fandom was ery strong. fire lady katara was more prevalent, yes, but any fic (and fanart) you check from 2014 and foward will be more kely to have ambassador katara rather than ire lady katara and when they do have her as fire lady, is really towards the end of the fic or in sequences of ambassador katara. i honestly think the first ambassador fanfic was a zutara fanfic, before OATS, on fanfiction.net on 2007. the earliest ambassador sokka fic as you stated is from 2008, but I don't know which site you're using as a metric

poor little zuko is a common trope in non-zukka fics (since the majority of atla fics are zuko-centric), even zutara ones, but the majority of the ones i see with katara being "meaner" than she was in the series and sokka "needing to intervene, are zukka. a good portion of "the gaang learns how zuko got his scar" also fall under that label

i don't care how "homophobic katara" got started and this isn't me being rude, just honest. It's out of hand and it's an annoying fucking trope (don't now if I can even call it that) and while it isn't common as "mean katara and savior sokka'" it's just as misogynist. Some authors really tried to keep as a little saint and then dunk prejudice on katara

I recognize there are zutara shippers who are misogynist to mai but I never denied that. I was talking about zukka and their treatment of katara, I don't see why I would mention mai when she isn't even included in most of zukka fics. If you want to talk about mai hate, be my guest, you're probably more well versed than me since I don't engage with mai related content, being it anti or pro

someone before you mentioned suki tho and that's something i wish i had included in my original ask. the show really disregards suki as does the fandom, it's annoying as hell to read a fic and they diminish sokka's feelings or her or make her jealous bc he's dating zuko

X

[its-ashley-95baybe]

I love that shippers are literally the same as every shipper in the world. When they get no content they post pics they themselves have held onto or think will help keep things going. Tomdayaland today literally was talking about how we haven’t seen them out or anything. And we know they are the ones who kept dying for pics from that non existent trip. Again you are telling me all of January we got NOTHING and literally any other time they are out we see them? We would have seen plenty if so. And remember dm didn’t post sightings and told someone like second week of January that they would post sightings. Meaning her team said not to. And why would her team say not to? Oh cause it wasn’t real she they didn’t want people to think ir was.

Also they don’t even look that tanned and I that video where they said Z had butt and hair down her back does not match the pic so which one is it????